[bluecross]

It is said, or speculated, that the third of the 10 secrets given to the visionaries will be a permanent sign on Apparition Hill that will confirm or prove Our Lady’s apparitions at Medjugorje and leave the world in no doubt.

But what I can’t get my head around is just why Our Lady has to ‘prove’ her presence. And if it is supposed to be a sign to bring people back to faith, then why wait this long (and still no sign) to provide a ‘clincher’ so to speak? Why hasn’t it happened already, if it is such an important sign and can save souls?

Or have we just misunderstood what the third sign really is, akin to when Jesus told his disciples that Elijah had already come and that the people did not recognise him –– Jesus was speaking about John the Baptist (Matthew 17 : 9-13).

Is there already a permanent sign at Medjugorje – and the people have refused to or are unable to recognise it? (We could include the Vatican commission in this).

I suppose the reality is that Our Lady doesn’t need to prove her presence. This is something that has probably been tagged to the secret, an opinion by people in an effort convince others of the reality of the Medjugorje phenomenon.

When the rich man begged Abraham to send someone back from the dead to convince his five brothers of the reality of Heaven and Hell, Abraham replied: “If they will not listen either to Moses or to the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone should rise from the dead.” (Luke 16 : 19-31)

If they will not listen to either the Queen of Prophets or her messengers, will they be convinced even if the third or all 10 secrets are fulfilled?

It was only after the tenth plague was inflicted on the Egyptians that Pharaoh capitulated and set the Israelites free.

So it may require more than three secrets to convince the world of Our Lady’s apparitions at Medjugorje.

[leo daly]

Interesting. I do believe it will take more than 3 secrets. They do say the later ones get worse. I wonder why the 7th was lessened and not an earlier or later one instead.

[irish m]

But if the third secret is something that come from God and it can't be destroyed and visible then how could you not believe but as you say BC is it already there?
God Bless All
Love Irish M
Ps All we can do is pray and wait if you hear anything before me let me know (ha ha )

[bluecross]

But if the third secret is something that come from God and it can't be destroyed and visible then how could you not believe but as you say BC is it already there?

Could it be the love of God?

[Maryh]

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for & assurance about what we do not see. Hb 11:1

Whatever the first and second secret is supposed to be;
seems like people will somehow 'need' this extra grace or heavenly sign!

Like the times will be more trying than at any other point of history. Just my guess!

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Could it be the love of God?

But BC, God's love for us is not a secret, it's already well known Good points though... I think your previous points on the need for prayer is more
important right now.

Whatever the first and second secret is supposed to be;
seems like people will somehow 'need' this extra grace or heavenly sign!

Maryh, I think your point in right on!

[bluecross]

But BC, God's love for us is not a secret

Countless are the souls who have yet to know the love of God in their hearts – even many Christians.

Countless are the souls who have yet to know that God’s love is greater than any of their sins.

If they knew and experienced the intensity of the love of God, then conversion would not be difficult.

So God’s love may not be a ‘secret’ in the sense as what is generally understood by the word, but then when the so-called ‘secrets’ are revealed, many might find themselves saying “But we knew that already, that’s not really a secret”.

Sometimes the truth is there in front of us, but we can choose to ignore it or not recognise it. It is hidden because of our hard hearts. This is what happened to many of the Pharisees. They came face to face with the truth but would not accept Jesus. Blindness had set in, they became deaf to the call. Their stony hearts failed to respond to the love of Jesus. But others did.

That’s why I said that the ‘secret’ could be the love of God. How many have discovered the reality of this truth on pilgrimage to Medjugorje? I did, and so did my wife, both practising catholics but never having truly known or experienced the unconditional love of God.

I know of so many Catholics who have yet to know the love of God. If they did, they would witness to it. It would become the most important thing in their lives. They wouldn’t stop talking about all that God has done and continues to do for them.

They would be like the apostles at Pentecost and say “We cannot refrain from speaking of what we have seen and heard.”

That’s what happens when pilgrims return from Medjugorje. They can’t stop witnessing. Even their own family may think the person has lost their senses. But it’s not about the person’s sanity but the power of the Holy Spirit who has come upon them and revealed the love of God in a most remarkable and often a very personal way.

I would say that the reference to ‘secrets’ can be misleading. I feel ‘revelation’ is a better word. In time, God reveals himself to everyone in most extraordinary ways – often through others. God reveals himself daily to those whose hearts are open to receive all that he wants to give each of us – here and now, without having to wait on so-called ‘secrets’.

It’s no secret that God paints a new sky every day. But many hearts are not satisfied with this. They seek more spectacular signs and wonders, just as some of the Pharisees demanded signs and wonders from Jesus, just as many wait anxiously for Medjugorje ‘secrets’ to unfurl in the future, not content with seeing the love of God manifest in hearts at Medjugorje these past three decades.

I know of only one person who is “full of grace”, but I also know that God dispenses his grace in various ways –– call them talents – so from this I can understand that the world if full of grace in the same way that heaven AND earth is full of God’s glory. We acknowledge this at every Mass.

All graces are special. And I address this to everyone on the forum including ‘lurkers’: Your life is special. It is a grace, a God-given gift for others. Our lives have a purpose that serves God and each other. It is a grace in itself, for that is what grace is, a blessing from God, in this life and the next. It’s no secret.

The ‘special’ graces are here and now. Very early on in her messages Our Lady said:

“The source of grace is here, but you, dear children, are the vessels which transport the gifts.”


In another message she said: “God gave you the grace, the gift of holiness.”

My favourite is: “This is a time of grace!”

Apologies for the ramble, I’ve been packing Medjugorje newsletters all day and still have more to do to get them posted in the morning.

[irish m]

BC and everyone else did Mirjana not say that you would have to come to Medjugorje to see it and for some it will be too late I think that's what she said
God Bless everyone
Love irish m
Ps pray pray pray

[bluecross]

There has been much said about the third secret.

I always see visible signs of love of God when I go to Medjugorje.

As for being too late for some... it wasn’t too late for the repentant sinner on his cross next to Jesus who was told by the Saviour: “You will be with me in Paradise this day.”

Our Lady is also reported to have said: “Whoever has done very much evil during his life can go straight to Heaven if he confesses, is sorry for what he has done, and received Communion at the end of his life.”

[irish m]

BC some good points the 2nd of February message is beautiful I have read it a few times I wonder no one has it up I wish I could do all them things like putting the message up on this site and photos but might learn some time
God Bless All
Irish M
Ps May The Love of God be with you always

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Again well stated BC. God has told us through Holy Scripture that no one would be without excuse as His creation is evidence enough for us to see His Love.

I definitely fit in at times with those who don't see or feel God's Love. I don't have any excuses and will be judged accordingly. That is why I need so much prayer.

Your point about the repentant sinner being able to go to Heaven includes all of us because we all fall short. This gives us much needed hope! Thanks for bringing it up.
It is nice to hear it said

[bluecross]

God has told us through Holy Scripture that no one would be without excuse as His creation is evidence enough for us to see His Love.

So also the sacrifice of our Redeemer on the Cross. Jesus is our hope, God’s love made flesh.

The prodigal son was never quizzed by his Father when he returned home after wasting his inheritance on his journey through life. The son repented but wasn’t judged by his Father. Instead his return was celebrated.

I feel the difficulty for many of us is that we can become like the elder brother, doing our best to respond to our Father, but at the same time in danger of becoming, resentful, angry and judgmental when we see others not coming up to our expectations or standards – and then we are presented with our own failings and can become discouraged. But, in fact, we are really judging ourselves because of our tendency to judge others – and God shows us this.

But we can be consoled by the knowledge that the Father called his elder son to join in the celebration. He did not shut the door on him. But it was the son who struggled with his pride and refused to enter. Maybe his anger and frustration, not just with his brother but also himself, subsided later on and he went into the warmth of the house as darkness started to descend and it began to get cold outside –– just like his younger brother did when he decided to return home, miserable, hungry –– and repentant.

[leo daly]

Apparently it can be filmed, that is why Sean Bloomfield and Denis Nolan put webcams facing podbrdo. Actually I read something yesterday from a reliable source that the sign is only part of the 3rd secret. So it hasn't been completely revealed yet.

Cheers
Leo.

[Prodigals]

Apparently it can be filmed,

Leo,
Where are you seeing information that the Sign can be photographed?

In an interview on Radio Maria in 2008, Vicka was asked about an comment Jakov had maid that in order to see the permanent sign it would be necessary to come to Medjugorje. She replied "Yes, it’s true. The sign will remain on Podbrdo, and one will have to come here to see it."

And in 1998 at a Marian Conference in Chicago, Mirjana commented "But you won’t see it from America, you’ll have to come there to see it. Pilgrims from the United States often ask me if we will be able to see it from home or will we have to go there to see it.”