[ActionReq]

That is what I want to say:
The church knows, she can't
get rid of the seers without
dumping the whole place.
So now she forcefully reduces
the seers to nought.

If you look good, then you
can see that there IS a
difference between the first
seven days and the rest.

So if God did this on purpose
then the Vatican should start
putting on sackclothes.
Because that means God
wants to select a group of
listeners, excluding certain
others. And if God did not do
this on purpose then they are
correct and some strange
force took over from day 7.
But then how do you explain
the presence of the Holy
Spirit in Medjugorje.
Presence! That is like endorsing
what is going on there, including
the myriad of messages.
I can draw one conclusion:
The created situation is too
awkward.
Two parties are being driven
apart. And that can only mean
one thing to a theologian.
So the title of this thread
is correct: Whom to follow?
Any other opinion in favor
of Medjugorje you may have is
either the Holy Spirit talking
to you, so you know the truth,
or too much love and partiality
makes you blind.

And that may be happening:
God wants to separate the
people who can hear the Holy
Spirit and the people who don;t.

If you go by theology alone,
then Medjugorje is already a
fake.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Any other opinion in favor
of Medjugorje you may have is
either the Holy Spirit talking
to you, so you know the truth,
or too much love and partiality
makes you blind.

Good point Action Req. I have partiality and love towards Medjugorje which has been based on personal firsthand experience not blind faith.

Paul tells us in Scripture that Love is the greatest of the gifts. There is no question that Pope Francis is full of Love but there have been Popes in the past
that were found to have erred in their personal opinion. I don't think our present Pope is exempt from this either.

And again, our Church is not a dictatorship. Rather, the Church allows us the space to use our hearts and minds. I respectfully disagree with the Pope's opinion on this matter
but continue to love him all the same...

I also agree that the Church will find it very difficult to have both the Medjugorje Sanctuary and discredit the seers and ongoing messages. Hard times ahead?

[bluecross]

I suppose after waiting so long for a response from Rome on the Medjugorje phenomenon what we are experiencing here is a reaction and a natural response to what has been said and reported recently, but after a long history of announcements, news, claims and counter-claims we should be used to the idea that the journey is never smooth and that the outlook is ever changing.

The next announcement from Rome may bring more surprises.

Like MP I have my own personal experience at Medjugorje which I turn to in times of uncertainty. I know what happened and no one can tell me it didn’t. This rock of certainty and conviction is always there. It’s enough for me not to become troubled over any other person’s doubts or disbeliefs. It’s all I need. It’s a manifestation of the words MP clings to: “I am with you”.

[bluecross]

Shrine status is not dependent on apparitions or messages. Never has been. So the Pope can legitimise Medjugorje as a Pontifical Sanctuary simply on the evidence of the good fruits without having to legitimise the apparitions and messages. This is not difficult for the Church. In fact it is probably the easiest decision to make, especially as the local bishop is up for retirement in a couple of years time.

And a time will come when there will be no further apparitions and no visionaries alive, but Medjugorje will still be a Pontifical Sanctuary.

People travel to Lourdes and Fatima and other Marian shrines not always believing in the claimed apparitions. The real motive in travelling to shrines is making the pilgrimage. It serves as a reminder of life’s pilgrimage travelling to a place prepared for each of us by God.

[bluecross]

there have been Popes in the past that were found to have erred in their personal opinion. I don't think our present Pope is exempt from this either.

We can’t dismiss that Pope Francis has full access to the Commission report, all the details, positive and negative; the kind of information that none of us have access to. So rather than say Pope Francis is capable of erring in his opinion about the ongoing apparitions, why not assume he just may have evidence to suggest he is correct in what he has said to the world. Or is this too painful?

Also when we suggest that the Pope is capable of erring in his opinion about ongoing apparitions then we are also tarring with the same brush all the other souls who share the Pope’s personal opinion.

So then we start travelling down the road contrary to the messages of Medjugorje. On one hand we say we believe in all the claims of apparitions at Medjugorje, and therefore the messages, and on the other hand fail to live the messages Our Lady invites us to. It’s the same trap that tempts all of us, me included, when we become ‘righteous’ yet fail to heed the message, be it from Christ or his Blessed Mother.

All answers are found in prayer, especially concerning the Pope when we pray the three Hail Mary’s at the start of the Rosary for his needs and intentions (and not for want we want him to need –– that becomes our need and intention)

I think I’m about through on this topic. Now I have to go and pray for my four-year-old grandson who wept throughout his school play this afternoon –– because, he says, his mother smiled at him! Work that one out.

Maybe that’s why Mirjana weeps so much, because the Blessed Mother smiles at her?

[Medjugorjeprayers]

BC, I certainly hope your grandson will be OK

Also, I want you to know that I am not trying to compete against your personal viewpoint. No need to take what I am saying personal as you seem a little upset that I said the Pope may have erred.

This is only my small perspective on this. I also think the Pope has had a problem with these visions even before gaining access to the commission reports. Before he become Pope he reportedly banned Ivan from speaking in his cathedral. He doesn't appear to like the longevity and timing of these apparitions. This bias could still be influencing him today. I pray for him regularly as I know that he in turn prays for all of us. He has a very difficult job protecting the faithful. He is even willing to risk his life by going to Egypt after a bombing and now he is traveling to a dangerous African nation that will afford him little protection.
A very courageous man of God.

[gtc]

This has been a great conversation back and forth and very insightful.

BC I could respond to some of what you say about the Pope, but it will take up too much space and I don't want to bore everyone with all that.

Let me just say that from my perspective (my opinion) I am not a fan of many things the Pope says when he begins to either talk about non religious topics or provides his personal opinion. I get he has inside knowledge, but it does not change my opinion about what I see as his inability to come to some type of peace about this, and I believe he admits that when he says it is his personal opinion.

From my perspective, I am taking it in, but I have been following this since the mid 80s, so his opinion is not major for me. I don't see evidence, only an opinion, that there is a major problem. I am actually very impressed by the Ruini report that it was this positive. I was not expecting that because in looking back at the history of these types of events, the Church in general has not been kind to these types of events as they occur. The other piece is that the opinion of what has happened since the first 7 days is mixed, not one sided, and isn't that timeframe the difficult one to deal with anyway?

In essence, the truth will come out one way or another. I am trying to live my life closer to Jesus and have increased my efforts in prayer in part guided by some of the principles that came from Medjugorje. I am very grateful for that.

[bluecross]

I am not a fan of many things the Pope says when he begins to either talk about non religious topics or provides his personal opinion.

gtc... Except in this instance Pope Francis is not speaking about a non-religious topic.

And again, the Pope is voicing the opinion of the Medjugorje Commission’s doubt about the ongoing apparitions, although he hints that further study is required on this –– a likely reference to the CDF’s ongoing examination of all the messages, which Cardinal Müller has said will not be completed for some time.

[gtc]

"I am not a fan of many things the Pope says when he begins to either talk about non religious topics or provides his personal opinion.

gtc... Except in this instance Pope Francis is not speaking about a non-religious topic."

But he is providing his personal opinion. My statement was an either or.

The point I am making is that when he is not providing his own opinion or he is speaking about a non religious topic, that is when my friends who have a strong relationship with God have a harder time dealing with what he says. These are topics that are out of the realm of what the Church promotes (ie what is dogma, what is teaching, etc). And the issue I have with this is that is treated on an equal basis in many cases because many people are not up to speed on what "counts" and what does not, or they use it to promote their agenda. I am not sure he understands this, or maybe he doesn't care. I don't know.

Note that Pope John Paul II did not express his personal opinion on this matter because he understood what the consequences would be. This pope does not seem to take that into consideration, or he does and chooses to say it anyway. This is unusual for someone at that level to do this, and there is a reason for that. It is because many times it causes confusion and does not really help.

[ActionReq]

This pope does not seem to take that into consideration, or he does and chooses to say it anyway. This is unusual for someone at that level to do this, and there is a reason for that. It is because many times it causes confusion and does not really help.

I am afraid talking does not
help anybody lately. GTC I did notice
your either/or and found the response
therefore also strange. We can understand
from this that if the reader needs to
solve a boolean equation to be able to
correctly answer a question, then things
will be heard differently. For me that
goes natural, for others not so natural.
Saying anything causes confusion,
because what is heard does not seem
so much to depend on what is said, but
it depends on the feelings towards the
person who said that.
Therefore the correct path of commenting
on anything is simply: Make yourself loved
first, and then you can say anything to
your audience, and they eat from your
hand. If you omit that love step, then
your words are like empty vessels
resounding, half read and wrongly
answered. We all do that, however
for myself, I try to find love in anything
said to not answer hastily. I try to not
gather love, as I want the people to
not judge my words on subjectivity
but on content. Have yet to find an
ear. Why I do that? Because I simply see
that this is what Jesus did.
example
Peter you are the rock on which I
build my church. Then Peter closes
in too much on Jesus, tries to get
a favorite status, looking for power
within the group. To become the
preferred of the alfa male.
Forging an alliance with Jesus, saying
that he is trying to protect him.
Jesus sees the subconscious intention
behind those words and acts, starts to
fear that the relationship with Peter
gets contaminated.

So Jesus repairs and says to Peter:
Get behind me satan.
Jesus could not afford to become
subject to this forging of alliances
with preferences, that would
contaminate a healthy relationship
so that what would be said later
would be interpreted with subjectivity.
Or maybe:
Verily I say to you, before the
rooster crows, you will deny me
three times. Say that to your friends!

Getting through objectively the right
way is an art.
And nobody masters that art.
NOBODY!

Maybe the pope is trying.
But he took the wrong subject.

[bluecross]

Here is an item which may help anyone who has been disappointed with the Pope’s recent remarks about Medjugorje.

It comes from Fr Slavko Barbaric, a confidante of the Medjugorje seers and much mourned ever since his unexpected death on Mt Krizevac on November 24, 2000.

In a comment about Our Lady’s messages and particularly about praying the the Rosary, Fr Slavko said:

“You should know that the apparitions are never new revelations and it is not possible to expect anything new from the content of them, but they must be understood as a new impulse in order to drive us on. When we talk of ‘peace, conversion, faith, prayer, fasting, sacramental life and confession each month’ this is only a fruit to make us put the old message which we have known for nearly two thousand years into practise, because the first words of Jesus were: ‘Be converted, do penance, pray and believe the Gospel. The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.’ The practical side of the apparitions is always this stimulus...”

September 15, 1984

So when Pope Francis says that the apparitions are of little value, he is echoing what Fr Slavko was saying, that it is not possible to expect anything new from the apparitions... that they are, as FR Slavko explained, simply a stimulus to put into practice what Jesus taught and what the priests pronounce from the altar at the end of every Mass: Go and announce the Gospel of the Lord... Go in peace... Go in peace, gloryfying the Lord with your life... The value is in living the message of the Gospel. There are no new revelations in Our Lady’s messages.

The grace in the priest’s words at the end of Mass is also a fruit – a blessing. Our Lady has said that the priest’s blessing is from Christ himself. Hers is a motherly blessing.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

I've been really praying about this saying the Rosary, going to confession, praying the Holy Spirit Novena, which also includes my nightly hike up into the mountains where I have my prayer spot away from all distractions. The Spiritual gift of Piety has been the most convicting to me. We are suppose to obey legitimate authority which includes the head of the Church.

The Gift of Piety

The gift of Piety begets in our hearts a filial affection for God as our most loving Father. It inspires us to love and respect for His sake persons and things consecrated to Him, as well as those who are vested with His authority, His Blessed Mother and the Saints, the Church and its visible Head, our parents and superiors, our country and its rulers. He who is filled with the gift of Piety finds the practice of his religion, not a burdensome duty, but a delightful service. Where there is love, there is no labor.

Then there is the spiritual gift of Wisdom that states in part:

Wisdom enlightens the mind to discern and relish things divine, in the appreciation of which earthly joys lose their savor...

Sometimes we don't have enough information from the Church to make a positive determination (as is the case with Medjugorje) and is where the prayer for wisdom becomes essential.

Click on link for full Novena to the Holy Spirit from EWTN. https://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/pentecost/seven.htm

I think we have all tried to ease the tension by coming up with a simple explanation that will somehow allow all of this to work together, the good and the bad for a common purpose. But in reality, bad fruit cannot be mixed in the with the good. The bad apple will spoil the whole lot. We need to face the facts here.

The Pope's recent comments on the papal plane concerning the validity of Medjugorje and integrity of the seers has far reaching consequences. It is no secret that the Pope has had a problem with Medjugorje even before he became Pope and was privy to the commission reports. How much will this affect his final decision concerning these events is yet to be known. Because the cat is out of the bag, I do feel the Vatican needs a swift response to better clarify their position. It is not fair or responsible to the faithful to leave us in limbo. The most important thing to come out of all of this is the Truth regardless of how painful or joyful it may be.

1. If what the Pope says about the ongoing visions is true, the visionaries caught up in this alleged deception, risk going to hell by deceiving millions of the faithful, that is if they are in their right minds.
One could say they truly believe they are having apparitions - a form of delusion or hallucination, possibly brought on by years of intense persecution by the communists or from all the pressure placed upon them by the millions trying to get a piece of them with some literally harming them physically as is the case with Vicka and Mirjana.
I personally feel that it is not likely that all the seers are delusional so it is more plausible that they are either telling the truth or are caught up in an elaborate conspiracy to deceive the faithful and even the Church. I'll stand by the former - they are telling the truth.

2. One the other hand, what if the seers are telling the truth from the very beginning and even today? If the seers are telling the truth, then the Pope and some on the commission have erred in their judgement which could result in millions of the faithful from being blessed by these unprecedented revelations from the Mother of God in a time that we really need them.
This wouldn't be the first time in history that this has occurred. Most all of the other apparitions have had their own unique drama and Medjugorje is no exception.

3. There is no denying that our world is in peril and divine help is much needed and is the only answer as it always is. Some people have become like animals, killing the innocent at will seemingly without a conscious to guide them. Unfortunately, as I see it, we are no different than those throughout history where they killed their prophets when their words didn't fit in with the agenda of the time.

Are we doing the same thing with Medjugorje?

[bluecross]

Medjugorje continues to function. Pilgrims are still travelling there in numbers and receiving graces. The seers continue with receiving their apparitions and giving messages. The Church continues to monitor the phenomenon. God’s mercy continues to pour out on his creation.

MP: A statement you may wish to reconsider:

But in reality, bad fruit cannot be mixed in the with the good. The bad apple will spoil the whole lot. We need to face the facts here.

Darnel does grow amongst wheat (Matthew 20 : 24-30), or put another way: Wheat can grow amongst darnel.

Isn’t that what happened at the outset? Atheism, a fruit of Communism was the darnel, and then Our Lady came and said in so many words, “I have come to tell you that there is wheat among the darnel. God’s word is planted here and will come to fruition in hearts.”

As for rejecting prophets, and even killing them, then perhaps this is why we should listen to our priests (and our Pope). All are prophets in the true sense of the word, called to proclaim and carry the word of God to the people. If any prophets are rejected and often called to face martyrdom, they are usually our priests.

I feel also we should heed the words of Ivan when he asked Our Lady why he was chosen as a seer, and she responded by saying she does not always choose the best. It was the same with Jesus when he chose his apostles. Some denied him, argued with each other, and one of them sold out on their Saviour.

Even Pope Francis confesses his sins!

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Medjugorje continues to function. Pilgrims are still travelling there in numbers and receiving graces. The seers continue with receiving their apparitions and giving messages. The Church continues to monitor the phenomenon. God’s mercy continues to pour out on his creation.

BC, This is true but the Pope in his personal opinion claims the seers are giving their messages today in vain because they are not from the Mother of God with no value. This is a serious accusation,
especially one that was given in an unofficial manner as if it was not important enough to carefully prepare a well thought out response. No judge would post his personal opinion in such a way, especially in a situation of great importance like this, nor should the Pope have. The Pope is claiming that the visionaries are not telling the truth. He is telling the faithful that they are waisting their time paying attention to the messages. You can spin this any way you want but the consequences to his statement are serious.

Though we won't hear it publicly from the seers, this must be hurtful for them to realize that the Pope, the head of the Church, doesn't believe them. I'm sure that Mary, through her intercession to Jesus, is helping them endure their suffering. Sorry, but I have always been one to stand up for the underdog, and in this case, the seers are now the underdog.

As for rejecting prophets, and even killing them, then perhaps this is why we should listen to our priests (and our Pope). All are prophets in the true sense of the word, called to proclaim and carry the word of God to the people. If any prophets are rejected and often called to face martyrdom, they are usually our priests.

This is a wise statement but not complete. It has also been the priests and Church head who has been the one's who killed the prophets. Just ask Jesus. And I'm sure that St. Joan of Arc could also vouch for that.

Wheat can grow amongst darnel.

Yes it is true that wheat can grow amoungt darnel but that doesn't exempt the fact that darnel corrupts the world leading many astray...

Simply put, the present situation if it stands is very awkward:

Go to Medjugorje and enjoy the fruits but be aware that the visionaries and their messages are false with no value. In my opinion, a problem waiting to happen.

Thankfully, God is in control, and in an instant, he can stop this confusion with a sign. But for now, our faith is being tried in the most difficult way. All the reason to listen to our Mother Mary and
Pray, Pray, Pray....

[johntt]

I do wonder whether the message the Lord might want us to understand from this latest development with Pope Francis is that discernment on private revelations must stay with the laity. It has always been that way. The hierarchy have always been late in responding and have often made mistakes in this area.

We have received incredible graces from Medjugorje over the past 37 years without any help from the Church authorities. I somehow feel that the new situation following the comments by Pope Francis merely underlines what I've just said. I believe there is absolutely no evidence of any problem with any of the visionaries and we should not be starting to 'suspect' any of them in any way. I believe there is no 'darnel' in the Medjugorje story and it is unfortunate that the Pope's words are leading believers to think in those terms. I fear that the error that Pope Francis has made in this matter stems from ignorance. I hope he will listen to his envoy when Archbishop Hoser makes his report.

Whether Pope Francis does change his view or not, I do believe he will protect Medjugorje because that is what God wants and the Holy Father does listen to the Holy Spirit.

[bluecross]

You can spin this any way you want but the consequences to his statement are serious.

Sure, there are consequences, but the spin is coming from your direction, MP.

Pope Francis has said he has personal doubts about the ongoing apparitions and in his opinion they have little value. I haven’t read any quotes of the Holy Father accusing the visionaries of manipulation, lies or any other shenanigans.

He’s not as you have stated, “claiming that the visionaries are not telling the truth”. These are your words which you attempt to put into the mouth of the Pope.

He has not said to the faithful “they are waisting their time paying attention to the messages”. These are your words.

Neither has he said that he “does not believe” the visionaries. These are your words.

And yes, you are being tested, because you choose to accuse the Pope with your own words, and that also is a danger to your spiritual health, especially when you are not in possession of all the facts relating to the Commission enquiry. So your assumptions are based on emotion and not the full report Pope Francis has access to.

You also made a statement in another post when you accused Archbishop Bergoglio (now Pope Francis) of being biased against Medjugorje for not allowing Ivan to witness in the Buenos Aires Cathedral. The Archbishop was following the rules of the Church in not letting the seer witness or receive the apparition in the Cathedral, but he did allow Ivan to witness in the diocese.

The comment I made about priests being prophets was a reminder (for me as well) that we are called to listen to our priests. Even the seer Mirjana will vouch for that. So would Our Lady. So did Jesus: “The scribes and the Pharisees occupy the chair of Moses. You must therefore do what they tell you and listen to what they say; but do not be guided by what they do: since they do not practise what they preach.” (Matthew 23 : 2-3)

While you may be disappointed with the comment made by Pope Francis, he is not alone in his opinion about the ongoing apparitions. The Medjugorje Commission also voted on this part of the phenomenon and expressed the same doubt.

Now if Pope Francis chooses to listen to and accept the Commission’s recommendations is it the fault of the commission or Pope Francis for having doubts about the ongoing apparitions –– or even the fault of Pope Benedict XVI who set up the Commission and appointed its members?

As for darnel corrupting wheat, that’s not possible. The danger is for those who are unable to recognise the darnel and harvest it thinking it’s wheat.

If you find your peace is disturbed by the statement of Pope Francis, what does that say about the value of the messages in your life when you allow this to happen?

Please, MP, keep discerning. Walk up your mountain with Pope Francis by your side and pause to reflect on the passion of Jesus at the Stations. The seer Marija did this with a person she had difficulties with after Our Lady had told her to do so. They came down the mountain best of friends!

Remember that Pope Francis is getting on in years and the rocky ascent may be difficult for him, so give him time to rest, take his arm when you have to. Bear with him in his difficulties and challenges and remember he has only one lung and may find it difficult to breathe at times (I will relate a story about this in a separate post). Pray that he completes his journey safely.

And I’m not saying or even suggesting you shouldn’t take all of Our Lady’s messages to heart.

There are wonderful times ahead for Medjugorje. Numbers will increase when the dust has settled. We can relate this to the time of the Bosnian War. Pilgrims stopped travelling there. There were risks and danger. But when the war ceased pilgrims grew in greater number.

[Prodigals]

I hope he will listen to his envoy when Archbishop Hoser makes his report.

And what do you think the Archbishop's report will say??

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Sure, there are consequences, but the spin is coming from your direction, MP.

Wow, (deleted) BC. I was referring to all of us, including myself, when I said "you can spin this any way you want." in my opinion, we are all spinning this the way we want it to go.

Pope Francis has said he has personal doubts about the ongoing apparitions and in his opinion they have little value. I haven’t read any quotes of the Holy Father accusing the visionaries of manipulation, lies or any other shenanigans.

The Pope clearly stated that this isn't the Mother of the Church working in Medjugorje. We've already gone over this and have quoted all the material to be found. If this isn't the Mother of the Church responsible for the apparitions as he claims, then who is it? He may not have said it in these exact words but He is clearly implying that what the visionaries are claiming isn't true.

He has not said to the faithful “they are waisting their time paying attention to the messages”. These are your words.

If something has little value how could that be considered a good use of our time?

Neither has he said that he “does not believe” the visionaries. These are your words.

Again, the Pope claimed that this is not the Mother of the Church. This speaks for itself.

And yes, you are being tested, because you choose to accuse the Pope with your own words, and that also is a danger to your spiritual health

You are doing the same to me that you accuse me of doing to the Pope. Judging others is also a danger to your spiritual health. If I am at fault here, don't follow my bad example.

You also made a statement in another post when you accused Archbishop Bergoglio (now Pope Francis) of being biased against Medjugorje for not allowing Ivan to witness in the Buenos Aires Cathedral. The Archbishop was following the rules of the Church in not letting the seer witness or receive the apparition in the Cathedral, but he did allow Ivan to witness in the diocese.

I was referring to several sources that I have read over the years about a book that was written wnere Archbishop Bergoglio apparently had some unfavorable words about Medjugorje. Link to one source:

http://te-deum.blogspot.com/2015/06/pop ... ts-on.html

I'll be the first to admit that I can fall victim to false information but it becomes more believable the more I hear our Pope speak unfavorably towards the messages.

I did find a source where Jacob from Medugorje Today wrote an article that backed up your comment that Archbishop Bergoglio did let Ivan speak at the diocese. This was encouraging and I want to thank you BC for bringing this to my attention Here's the link to this:

http://ingodscompany2.blogspot.com.au/2 ... isits.html

If you find your peace is disturbed by the statement of Pope Francis, what does that say about the value of the messages in your life when you allow this to happen?

You're judging again,

Please, MP, keep discerning. Walk up your mountain with Pope Francis by your side and pause to reflect on the passion of Jesus at the Stations. The seer Marija did this with a person she had difficulties with after Our Lady had told her to do so. They came down the mountain best of friends!

Great advice! I'll definitely take you up on this And hopefully when I'm finished, you and I can also be best friends

Remember that Pope Francis is getting on in years and the rocky ascent may be difficult for him, so give him time to rest, take his arm when you have to. Bear with him in his difficulties and challenges and remember he has only one lung and may find it difficult to breathe at times (I will relate a story about this in a separate post). Pray that he completes his journey safely.

Very well put BC. Realize that I love this Pope dearly. I will gladly help this special man whenever or wherever I can just as he helps me in my walk in faith with his example of great love and mercy. Just because I don't agree with everything he says (and there are many things) doesn't take away from this fact. It's like a marriage or two friends arguing together. You understand this BC more than I.

There are wonderful times ahead for Medjugorje.

AMEN

[bluecross]

I’ve no need to judge you, MP. Not angry either.

----------

about the comment I mentioned about difficulty in breathing....

I can relate to the diffculty in climbing Mt Krizevac. The last time I did this was some years ago and unbeknown to me I was suffering from a severe heart condition.

A daughter of mine came with me on the pilgrimage. She really didn’t want to be there but one day we joined the group to ascend Krizevac. I assured her I would be okay in doing so.

She raced ahead with the group while I made my way slowly up the path. But the group and my daughter would always wait for me at every station.

It was about the time we reached the third or fourth station that I noticed my daughter would come up and stand next to me, real close. And then when the prayers were finished she would race off again.

I eventually cottoned on to what she was doing and the reason she was drawing so close to me at every station. She was listening to my breathing and assessing if I was okay to continue. But she never let on.

This continued to the top of the hill and also on the descent until eventually, about four stations from the bottom, she galloped off and I never saw her again until I reached the cafe at the base of the hill where she had a warm cup of coffee waiting for me. She had obviously satisfied herself that her dad was going to make it make without any trouble.

Words were never exchanged about this but I realised she was gifted with a listening heart. She still is.

She was named after the Blessed Mother.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

I’ve no need to judge you, MP. Not angry either.

Glad to hear I guess I was having a bad day with all of this and will admit I got carried away a bit.

I guess I'm doing the same thing I am accusing to Pope of doing - speaking before thoroughly vetting my thoughts.

Your story with your daughter is inspiring! Maybe if we meet up sometime I'll share a similar story with you....

[Medjugorjeprayers]

bluecross wrote:
Please, MP, keep discerning. Walk up your mountain with Pope Francis by your side and pause to reflect on the passion of Jesus at the Stations. The seer Marija did this with a person she had difficulties with after Our Lady had told her to do so. They came down the mountain best of friends!

Great advice! I'll definitely take you up on this And hopefully when I'm finished, you and I can also be best friends

Ok BC, I'm back from the mountain and I took your advice and brought Pope Francis along at least in spirit. The hike is a little shorter than Cross Mountain but much steeper in spots. I prayed the Glorious Mystery and dedicated it to the Pope's well being both spiritually and physically. When I reached the top I prayed the fifth day of the Holy Spirit Novena which reads as follows:

FIFTH DAY

Light immortal! Light Divine! Visit Thou these hearts of Thine, And our inmost being fill!

The Gift of Knowledge

The gift of Knowledge enables the soul to evaluate created things at their true worth--in their relation to God. Knowledge unmasks the pretense of creatures, reveals their emptiness, and points out their only true purpose as instruments in the service of God. It shows us the loving care of God even in adversity, and directs us to glorify Him in every circumstance of life. Guided by its light, we put first things first, and prize the friendship of God beyond all else. "Knowledge is a fountain of life to him that possesseth it."

Prayer

Come, O Blessed Spirit of Knowledge, and grant that I may perceive the will of the Father; show me the nothingness of earthly things, that I may realize their vanity and use them only for Thy glory and my own salvation, looking ever beyond them to Thee, and Thy eternal rewards. Amen.

Our Father and Hail Mary ONCE.
Glory be to the Father SEVEN TIMES.
Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts

Novena found at EWTN - https://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/pentecost/seven.htm

I dedicated this prayer to our Pope as well.

As I was Hiking up the rugged trail, I was recapping my thoughts today and realized I focused too much on the negative. I then tried to replace some of these thoughts with a more positive outlook
about the Pope.

What I like the most about our Pope - He is fearless, strong, durable, loving, compassionate, merciful, has a good sense of humor, is a hard worker, giving, charismatic, upfront, not phony, says what he means, does a good job leading the faithful to Christ.

I like all these qualities about him but the one that stood out the most while on the hike was his strength. Pope Francis definitely dishes it out at times but more importantly, he can take it. Meaning, it doesn't appear to bother him when others critique or criticize him.
He is thick skinned, has street smarts, has been around the block a few times. His life in Argentina has taught him these qualities as I'm sure he witnessed a lot of corruption, poverty, and other things not so nice. He also experienced the good things in society such as relationships, children playing, people praying and people working together for the good.

Where I'm from, strength of character still means something especially here in the semi-tamed wild west.

Thanks for the suggestion BC as I felt much better after returning home and wanted you to know that I also threw in a few prayers for you and yours as well

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Whether Pope Francis does change his view or not, I do believe he will protect Medjugorje because that is what God wants and the Holy Father does listen to the Holy Spirit.

Good point Johntt

[johntt]

I hope he will listen to his envoy when Archbishop Hoser makes his report.

And what do you think the Archbishop's report will say??

I have no idea really but I was exceptionally impressed, somehow, by the Archbishop when he gave a press conference in Medjugorje soon after arriving there. There was a 'relaxed' air about him and he seemed free of diplomatic type answers. He was asked by an Al Jazeera journalist, in a slightly clever way, what Pope Francis thought about Medjugorje. He just smiled a little, saying, "that's a very good question. The answer is I don't know - he didn't tell me!"

I can only think that the Archbishop will report positively about his experiences in Medjugorje and that he didn't encounter any problems with what was happening there.

[bluecross]

Archbishop Hoser said recently:

“The cult of the place does not have to depend on apparitions. We can worship the Mother of God everywhere…”

“During my visit [to Medjugorje] I also talked with the bishop of Mostar – twice. However, my purpose was not to settle the dispute [with Franciscans… maybe even with Cardinal Schonborn] or whether the revelations were authentic. My mission was precisely defined in the letter of the Secretariat of State of the Holy See. The tasks entrusted to me have been fulfilled. The purpose of my mission was to examine the situation regarding the pilgrimage movement in Medjugorje. I investigated the facts, the opinions of the local bishops and the direct pastors of the place, the Franciscans. I have had many individual conversations and also met four so-called [seers] – those who say they have seen and still see Our Lady…”

“Although there is the problem of authenticity, or non-authenticity of the apparitions, the pastoral movement is very strong, even stronger…”

“I have identified three elements: First of all the mater of worship is Christocentric. The Marian cult is always directed at Jesus. In a word, I observed the correct Christic cult: through Mary to Christ. I have seen the most classic and traditional ways of expressing faith, such as Holy Mass, which is central, daily adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, the Rosary, the Way of the Cross, and the great phenomenon of this place – confession. There are 50 confessionals and still not enough. Priests confess properly everywhere. I talked with them: they talked about great confessions and conversions.”

“The second very strong element is formation [of faith]. Medjugorje organises anual seminars fro many groups, meetings lasting several days. They concern the truths of faith centered around Scripture.”

“The third element is the creation of many charitable works and groups around Medjugorje.” (Archbishop Hoser mentioned Jakov’s group, Mary’s hands, and the Merciful Father group. He also said there were about 30 communities there, some monastic and already approved. Here he mentioned Cenacolo and how positive the fruits were of these communities)…

Went on to say he saw an analogy between Medjugorje and Kiebho…

Added that Medjugorje does create extreme emotions and that it was the extreme that were the most audible and recommended that until there was a judgement by the Holy See a more calm expectation without emotion should be adopted.

He didn’t know when a judgment would be made but that there would be one in the future and said that patience was a virtue and journalists are impatient.

He concluded that he did not see the ‘spinning sun’ but on the other hand he saw thousands of people praying and also witnessed peace, prayer and joy “AND THIS WILL BE THE REPORT I WILL SEND TO THE VATICAN IN THE EARLY SUMMER.”

[aoise]

In addition to Milka, (sister of Marija), another Ivan also saw Our Lady that first day. Added to that, a sibling of one of the other visionaries also saw her the second day.