Medjugorje Forum

Now Ireland has voted yes to abortion; i heard that everyone who voted yes will
be ex-communicated.
Who's going to break the bad news?
Under what other conditions can one become ex-communicated?

Is it just the Catholic church who can ex-communicate others?
Or can we ex-communicate people also as members of his church?
(Asking for a friend! )

Maryh wrote:Now Ireland has voted yes to abortion; i heard that everyone who voted yes will
be ex-communicated.
Who's going to break the bad news?
Under what other conditions can one become ex-communicated?

Is it just the Catholic church who can ex-communicate others?
Or can we ex-communicate people also as members of his church?
(Asking for a friend! )

Excommunication is like treating
the sacred host like a dog cookie.
If you do what we say, then you
get a cookie. If you don't then we
don't give you the cookie.

The church speaks about administering
the host. Funny, because in the heavens
there are no administrators.
Jesus says:
Freely ye have received; freely give ye.

My body was never meant to be
administered but given. How can you
administer what was given freely?

How can you heal, if that what heals
is involuntarily abstained from you.
Therefore there are hard hearts in the
church, and hard hearts will only make
other hearts hard. If that is what
they want?

I love your point of view ActionReq,
That is so true.

Jesus said that whoever comes to me, he'd never turn them away.
All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

God has given us all free will & none of us are really worthy for him to enter under our own roof anyway.

A bishop prevented a man to stand in for his nephew's confirmation because he had been out promoting the
'Yes' vote. This man was really disappointed and really wanted to be there for his nephew.

I think this may be why Pope Francis is careful about not trying to turn anyone away and then there is much furore
among the bishops who are trying to uphold doctrines & church teachings.
Pope Francis said that communion was not just for the perfect. Jesus did die for everyone, all of us sinners.

Hope we can all manage to bear with one another.

Been wondering something similar.

I was in the airport recently waiting at the gate before they allowed people to board the flight. A girl with a black 'repeal' sweater sat down beside me and I got up and walked away. Being the male I am I was flattered that she had opted to sit there in the first place. You assume that it was a tactical choice on her behalf that she was making to sit beside you in the hopes that you would strike up a conversation. You don't think that she might have just wanted to sit down. However, even though I was flattered I got up, didn't say anything, just walked away. She was young probably at most in her mid 20s and I hoped that someone so young had not had an abortion. The seat where I sitting remained empty and I was thinking to myself that I have given up my seat. Now I am standing. Perhaps I should back and sit down. But I didn't want to. Then I found myself thinking that perhaps others didn't take the seat beside her because of the sweater she was wearing. But then I realised that the majority had voted yes , so it shouldn't be an issue. Anyway I also began to think that what I did wasn't nice and she might have picked up on it. This lead to the question was I being a good Christian ? What way are we supposed to behave towards those who voted yes ? I guess we will all figure out our ways of dealing with it now. How do you separate the sin from the sinner ? Hate the sin not the sinner. But don't forget the babies who are being killed. Still figuring it out

Merlorrich wrote:A girl with a black 'repeal' sweater sat down beside me and I got up and walked away. Being the male I am I was flattered that she had opted to sit there in the first place.

What are ye like?
Ah no! I can understand that reaction, i find the whole 'repeal' message so repellent too that it triggered an adrenaline
'flight or fight' reaction plenty of times.

It's hard to be a peace-maker and 'spread' peace if we're not feeling it ourselves i find. We cannot give what we do not have.

Merlorrich wrote:This lead to the question was I being a good Christian ? What way are we supposed to behave towards those who voted yes ?

So
I'm asking God to teach me how to love people especially when i'm not feeling it. I'm really not feeling it for certain folk as it stands.
I definitely fall short on many occasions.

Only God gives inward peace,
and I depend on him. Psalm 62:5

I also think that 'there go I but for the hand of God'.
Upon examining my own conscience i thought there were some commandments that i'd never 'ever' be tempted to break.
Whether that was because of pride or naivety, I thought this; I'm not sure. Well i was wrong!
So i just think all of us sinners have more in common with one another than we think.
Anyone can get deceived at any time.

Glad to know i'm not the only one who struggles with this anyway!

Action Req Where did you see it written that Christ said "Jesus says: Freely ye have received; freely give ye. My body was never meant to be administered but given. How can you administer what was given freely?"

1st letter of St Paul to the Corinthians 11:29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup unworthily, not honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God's judgment upon yourself.

Hi Leo,
A bishop here in Ireland has echoed what you are after saying; how serious it is to receive holy communion unworthily,
especially when there is no chance they were acting in ignorance.

They are preparing a document on the matter which will be published next week.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social- ... 4?mode=amp

Bishop condemns ‘jumping and roaring’ over poll result
Alphonsus Cullinan questions ‘the critical thinking ability of the Irish’
The Catholic Bishop of Waterford has questioned the ability of Irish people to think critically, accusing some Yes voters in last week’s abortion referendum of “culpable ignorance”.

Expressing horror at scenes of celebration in Dublin Castle last Saturday, Bishop Alphonsus Cullinan said the vote meant euthanasia was now accepted in Ireland.

He agreed with Bishop of Elphin Kevin Doran that Catholic Yes voters needed to attend confession, and he criticised the national media for lack of balance during the referendum campaign.

Speaking on Waterford local radio WLR FM, Bishop Cullinan said:“Let’s face it, euthanasia has now been accepted in this sense that we have accepted - the majority of the Irish people - that some life is not worthy of life.”

He was, he said, “horrified to see the jumping and roaring and cheering in Dublin Castle last Saturday. I mean how can you cheer about abortion? I don’t think that’s good.”

On Bishop Doran’s call for Catholic Yes voters to go to confession, he said “I think he’s right. I have to agree with Bishop Kevin. I mean, what is abortion? It is the intentional taking of a human life, it’s not accidental.”

With all the talk during the campaign “people cannot claim ignorance. If they do it is culpable ignorance. This is a very serious issue and if people have knowingly and willingly voted Yes, well then they have to examine their conscience, go before the Lord and say, Lord we got this wrong. I do believe that.”

Such people “should talk to the priest, they should go to confession” before receiving Communion.

Quoting St Paul, he said “to receive Holy Communion unworthily is a very serious matter for which you’ll have to answer”.

The bishop said he was preparing a document on the matter which would be published next week.
Make up morality’

When it was put to him that 82 per cent of voters said in exit polls they were well informed on the referendum issue, he asked: “What is the critical thinking ability of the Irish? Do we think things through? Do we accept an objective morality or do we make up our own?”

He said: “I think now people just make up their own morality and that in many ways is frightening because it means at the end of the day it is those who are strong and powerful will dictate to the less powerful and the weak.”

On his recent refusal to allow Minister of State John Halligan be a witness at the TD’s godson’s confirmation, Bishop Cullinan said “John excluded himself from the confirmation. Someone who does not believe in God and has made it public, crystal clear in radio, television and print media, how could he stand there and want to be part of a church ceremony?

“It’d be like asking Brian Cody to play in goal against Waterford when they’re playing Kilkenny. It’s just doesn’t make sense.”

As to the future of the Catholic Church in Ireland he said “we’ll certainly be a smaller church. I think that we will be more committed. I can see so many good things happening”.

It had been said to him that if the Nos won “it could well have happened that church people would say we can relax on our oars. Now we see the extent of the problem and where Ireland is at. Maybe it’s a call to action”.

leo daly wrote:Action Req Where did you see it written that Christ said "Jesus says: Freely ye have received; freely give ye. My body was never meant to be administered but given. How can you administer what was given freely?"

1st letter of St Paul to the Corinthians 11:29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup unworthily, not honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God's judgment upon yourself.

Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

Freely you have received?
What have they received?

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So what should they freely give?

1st letter of St Paul to the Corinthians 11:29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup unworthily, not honoring the body of Christ, you are eating and drinking God's judgment upon yourself.

Well and? So what?
I prefer 1000
times the judgment of God upon
me than no judgment of God upon
me. The mistake that you make is
to presume that you can prevent
dear Jesus to fall in the hands of
the unworthy. Jesus can handle
the unworthy souls very well
and make them worthy.
If you prevent the so called
unworthy from communion you
commit the sin of the disciple who
tells Jesus to shut up the people
who are driving out demons in
the name of Jesus.

"Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."

You underestimate Jesus by thinking
that 'the unworthy' defile the
consecrated host.
My Jesus is stronger than that
He is like Listerine to unworthy
bacteria and like an ointment for
the suppressed soul. He will
surely make the good come out of
the unworthy. Unless one wants to
prevent that, I feel that is a sin.
We should know better by now.

Catechism 1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.

See http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... s2c1a3.htm

ActionReq wrote:Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

I understand this as meaning that the twelve were not to charge any money for their 'service' to the kingdom of God.
They were to go spread the good news & show the glory of God.
Healing the sick, raise the dead, were not done by their own efforts therefore they were not to take any kind of selfish credit for them.
Not any personal glory or wealth but to give God all the glory. They received it all freely, as a free gift from God.


If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sin is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgement and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God….Hebrews 10:26-27 NIV.

leo daly wrote:Catechism 1415 Anyone who desires to receive Christ in Eucharistic communion must be in the state of grace. Anyone aware of having sinned mortally must not receive communion without having received absolution in the sacrament of penance.

See http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... s2c1a3.htm

Leo,
Are you in a state of grace?

Thinking about St. Joan of Arc.

Like most people I go from a state of grace to state of mortal sins at times. Thank heavens for the sacrament of reconciliation.