[bluecross]

In all the weekly and monthly messages given to Marija since 1984, Our Lady mentions the word ‘pain’ only three times.

In all the monthly messages presented by Mirjana over the past ten years, the word ‘pain’ is mentioned 37 times.

[Maryh]

Maybe Mirjana's message is focusing on how the pain of life can be a particular hindrance to those
who struggle to believe there is a Loving God who would allow this, design this pain. She is trying to reassure and encourage us
that we can bear it all better if we have love in our hearts and a knowing that its part of the plan so there is always reason to hope.
That light will come.
People lose the sense of a God who's with them in their suffering. It's really common.
In fact the most bitter 'atheists' I've ever listened to have expressed such anger and disappointment at all the injustice
in the world. They're in pain.

If its been said before that Mirjana's special mission was directed towards 'unbelievers'.
We all got elements where our faith is a work in progress. Well speaking for myself it is.

Thanks so much Prodigals for your analysis!

[bluecross]

A relevant reading for Mirjana’s message:

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.”
2 Corinthians 1:3-7

[MRSTOL]

To All,
This Sunday's Gospel was about pain and the crosses we bear. It was read to "take up your cross and follow Me". The BVMs message mirrowed the gospel. The message spoke to me in many ways. Not each message is for each and every one of us but we can all learn from the message. The first three years of messages spoke of "prayer with the heart". What does that mean but to each individual the way.

I also do not always take up my cross with joy and peace in my heart as an example to others. I must learn to find joy in the cross gave me as redemtive suffering and offer all for special intentions.

Love in Christ,
MRSTOL

[Prodigals]

People lose the sense of a God who's with them in their suffering.

But are those people truly with Christ in His suffering?

The faith of many is tepid at best. And for these, when the road gets a little tough with pain, it is then that they mistakenly come to the conclusion that God is not with them. What they lose sight of (or maybe don't know at all) is that it is we who have the obligation to join with Christ in His suffering - not the other way around. Paul says it in Philippians "to know him and the power of his resurrection [by the] sharing of his sufferings by being conformed to his death"

That means we are to join with Christ, not only by the pious testimony of our lips, but by taking up our cross [pain and suffering] and following in His footsteps. In other words, we are to crucify ourselves.

It is a hard thing for mortals like us to comprehend, but suffering is the way God has chosen to bring redemption to a fallen world. So we cannot join with Christ - “die to ourselves” - without suffering. Hard to understand why God chose suffering as the way to salvation. And on a personal level we might ask, why has God asked me to suffer? I'm one of His most ardent believers. If we ask a question like this, it can explain why Our Lady says "You do not comprehend pain".

But more deeply on this point, we not only don’t realize why God has called us to suffer, but many in the world don’t realize that God has called us to suffer. Author C. S. Lewis said it well: “The question is not why the righteous suffer, but why some do not!”

Seeing people stoically suffering their pain so that they can present a beautiful example to others misses the point.

In order to truly “know” Him and the power of His resurrection, we must first experience the communion of His sufferings as Paul says "by being conformed unto His death". By allowing pain and suffering into our lives as a way to join with Christ, God is conforming us into His death wherein eternal life resides.

[bluecross]

Seeing people stoically suffering their pain so that they can present a beautiful example to others misses the point.

No it doesn’t. It serves a purpose. It can be a sign of dignity and inner strength, even grace-given, an example shown by Christ himself during his Passion.

I hid my pain through love (Mirjana’s recent message).

[Maryh]

I recently heard the life story of a woman who died of cancer.
It really was such a hard set of circumstances she had to endure; but yet, everybody spoke about her amazing attitude, her love of life and strength and good sense of humour. The three F's were important to her; her Faith, family and Fun.
It wasn't that she was putting on a show of stoic-ism, but that she truly was consoled by her faith- i think this is what you
were getting at Prodigals if i understand correctly?
Bluecross; yes it absolutely does serve a purpose, these people's bravery's shines a really bright light into the lives of others.

My understanding is that it's other people most of all who makes us suffer; not God directly wanting to smite us all as a payment for eternal life.
I think Satan does win battles in this world and its not pleasing to God on any level...

When we learn we are to 'crucify' ourselves? Is there a limit to this or any parameters?
Reading a message whereby its advised that we are to suffer out of love at all times could land some folk in hot water.
God doesn't want us to be made doormats out of either.

[Prodigals]

It wasn't that she was putting on a show of stoic-ism, but that she truly was consoled by her faith- i think this is what you
were getting at Prodigals if i understand correctly?

Yes, if a sufferer endures their pain because they know the true spiritual value of suffering - i.e., conforming ourselves to Christ's death. They are using their pain - "crucifying themselves" - for for its prime purpose of becoming one with Christ to effect their own eternal salvation.

Seeing someone suffer with great dignity and bravery - even if done in great sincerity - may also present a heartwarming human story, but that aspect does not address the prime spiritual purpose of suffering.

[stunnedbyit]

This discussion reminded me of Blessed Chiara Badano. Her embrace of suffering is hard to comprehend..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiara_Badano

In the summer of 1988, Chiara felt a sting of pain in her shoulder while playing tennis. At first she thought nothing of it, but when the pain mysteriously continued to be present, she underwent a series of tests. The doctors then discovered she had a rare and painful form of bone cancer, osteogenic sarcoma. In response Chiara simply declared, "It's for you, Jesus; if you want it, I want it, too."[3]

Throughout the treatment process, Chiara refused to take any morphine so she could stay aware. She felt it was important to know her illness and pain so she could offer up her sufferings. She said, "It reduces my lucidity and there's only one thing I can do now: to offer my suffering to Jesus because I want to share as much as possible in his sufferings on the cross."[1] During her stays in the hospital, she would take the time to go on walks with another patient who was struggling with depression. These walks were beneficial to the other patient but caused Chiara great pain. Her parents often encouraged her to stay and rest but she would simply reply, "I'll be able to sleep later on."[3]

One of her doctors, Dr. Antonio Delogu, said, "Through her smile, and through her eyes full of light, she showed us that death doesn't exist; only life exists."[1] A friend from the Focolare Movement said, "At first we thought we'd visit her to keep her spirits up, but very soon we understood that, in fact, we were the ones who needed her. Her life was like a magnet drawing us to her."[1]

[Maryh]

Thanks SBI for sharing that story;
When people seem willing to face up to and accept suffering and not run from it or go do pleasure seeking activities in order to avoid it;
it really does seem to open up a path for others & lights the way.

It's encouraging to even hear of such people.

[stunnedbyit]

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/ ... llo-27329/

Chiara Corbella Petrillo embraced her suffering in a similar way. The 2 Chiara's were amazing young women..

[kim52]

The message helped me. I find it incomprehensible that this visionary would be anything but forth right in what she is heari ng.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

As you stated a while back Prodigals, we are the one's who brought suffering upon ourselves through our sins which includes individual, family, societal, Etc...

It wasn't God who created suffering as He never intended for anyone to suffer, including His Son Jesus... At the beginning of our existence we chose to sin and now we bear the consequences of this sin.
Sin causes disorder in our lives, our communities, our planet, and even our universe. This disorder harms our molecular make up and is why we have things like cancer and other horrible diseases.
This is why innocent children are diagnosed with cancer by the thousands as they are caught in the crossfire.

The accumulation of sin and it's harmful affects have intensified throughout history. Today, It feels like we are at the breaking point.

I personally despise suffering and like many of you have either gone through it personally in the past or present, and/or are witnessing it tear someone else apart.

I believe God uses suffering for our salvation because this is our reality now that we have chosen sin. God uses our weakness to make us strong.... He is the master at taking a bad situation and making it good... We have been given a powerful example of the redeeming power of suffering through Christ on the Cross. We can also see in part, the horrible suffering that Mary went through as she watched her beloved Son suffer and die a brutal death at Calvary.

Suffering will not end as long as sin is in the world. Even though I do not like suffering, I am very thankful that God has provided us with a way to to use this pain in a positive light when when offer it up in union with Christ's suffering on the Cross and when we offer up our suffering for the salvation of sinners which includes me, a sinner, in need of God's redemptive grace and power....

[Prodigals]

I am very thankful that God has provided us with a way to to use this pain in a positive light when when offer it up in union with Christ's suffering on the Cross ....

The great difficulty for many good spiritual people is accepting the title "sinner" upon themselves. They are good moral people. They are church-goers and lovers and worshipers of God. They read their Bible (even though parts of it are hard to understand). They are kind and generous, they don't lie or steal. They don't cheat on their taxes. They return the excess when they are accidentally given too much change at the supermarket. They keep all the commandments not so much because God commanded it, but rather because it is the right and righteous way to live. And they have a soft spot in their hearts for puppies and other small furry animals. They have a hard time thinking of themselves as someone who disobeyed God so grievously that they were thrown out of Paradise. Who me? Hey! I'm one of the good ones. I didn't do anything. Why must I suffer?

Yes, its hard to understand.

But even if they cannot fully understand why they, too, must suffer, you touch on an important point that folks need to remember. God didn't abandon us and leave us in the mess we created and let us suffer with no good coming from it. Pointless pain of no value - how horrible. Instead, in His infinite love of us He placed a redemptive value on the pain we suffer if, as you pointed out, we offer our pain to Christ for the salvation of a sinner. We take the hit for someone else. Isn't that exactly what Jesus did on Good Friday?

And by this altruistic giving-of-self, this imitation of Christ, we take a part in our own salvation.

[irish m]

I did not know how to reply to this message but as I was at Adoration l opened my book the book HE AND I it opened at page 106 and it said I was thinking about suffering You may be sure that human nuture cannot love suffering for itself. My human nature didn't love it either. But supernature uses it as an instrument to serve God either for His own purposes -and this is most perfect - or for the grace that we want to obtain if it is the Father's will to give it And always, My little child, you must be one with Me in My sufferings
God Bless you
Love irish M

[crystal]

It has been interesting to read all the reactions to and interpretations of the September 2 message through Mirjana. Thank you. My first thought, which has only grown stronger as September progresses, was that Mary was preparing us for what is to happen this month. That's why the message was so different and unsettling. Already we've seen unprecedented natural disasters around the globe and just today, North Korea has threatened "pain and suffering" ahead of the U.S.'s UN vote. Whether or not North Korea acts on its words, the world is undergoing a huge amount of man-made and natural turmoil, and to me, Mary's words offer a way to turn away from despair, hopelessness and anger, and turn toward a kind of prayer and action that just might save us during this volatile time. It is so easy to slide away from everything she has been saying that we like (peace, love, grace) when true pain and suffering take hold. Although initially disturbed by this message, I'm grateful for it now, and do think she was/is preparing us for a tough future ahead.

[maryannlucy]

Here is a video link to the September 2, 2017 apparition. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjcyyjJ ... e=youtu.be Once again, the demons infesting some of the afflicted pilgrims rage at the presence of the Virgin Mary. How can we not be moved to pray and fast for ourselves and others who may be in danger of losing their souls just hearing the horrid sounds of the demons? An eternity in hell literally scares the hell out of me so much that I will offer up pain and suffering in reparation for my sins, the sins of those I love and the sins of my enemies.

[Maryh]

As you stated a while back Prodigals, we are the one's who brought suffering upon ourselves through our sins which includes individual, family, societal, Etc...

The great difficulty for many good spiritual people is accepting the title "sinner" upon themselves.

I find it most difficult to apply that line of thinking to the situation of others too; especially when innocent children have to suffer really serious and heinous situations.
Many cases they could not accept responsibility on any level for what they have to suffer.

On some level; they'd get the message that they somehow 'deserved' the suffering because of this sin condition.
It's really difficult.
I think the sense of hope in who God is would need to out shine that sense of condemnation as a sinner.

[Prodigals]

. . . they could not accept responsibility on any level for what they have to suffer.

Seeing children suffer can be heart wrenching. We simply cannot understand it. Our natural inclination is to think that something is quite wrong if an infinitely loving God would allow the innocent young to suffer. I mean, Our Lord’s love for children is undeniable. “Let the children come to me, and do not prevent them; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”(Matthew 19:14).

We get mad at God because he doesn't seem to behave in the way we think He should. It is a struggle for us to remember that we are not to presume to judge God's plan - a plan which in its totality we don't know.I think it has to do with man's limited mind being able to see and know the whole divine story. Suffering and death were not part of God’s original plan for the world. They came to us as a result of Original Sin - man's sin. We, today, are so far removed in time from that original sin that don't feel any association with it, and none of us can understand the mystery.

When seeing a child suffer - seemingly for no good reason - it can be hard to remember that God wills no suffering. The insanity of an innocent suffering is a very hard part of a world that man himself created. And it is at times like this when we must remember that God can create good out of suffering in his own mysterious way. Perhaps a child's suffering and death strengthens the living family to the point that a greater good occurs.

Only God knows.

St. Thomas Aquinas had something to say on this topic which can be helpful to try to understand why innocent children suffer:
"Sometimes indeed such ills [suffering] are ordained not as a punishment of some sin, but as a help against future sin, or for progress in virtue, either of him who suffers it or of another. For as the Lord says in John 9:3, of the man born blind, “Neither has this man sinned, nor his parents, but the works of God were to be made manifest in him,” which served to promote human salvation."

[Maryh]

And it is at times like this when we must remember that God can create good out of suffering in his own mysterious way.

That's great Prodigals; hadn't heard that quote from Aquinas before.

Yes, we want to be able to understand the whole picture when many times its just not available to us so all
we have left to do is have faith in Gods promises that 'all things work together for good for those who love God'.
I definitely do feel mad at times for things not happening as i think they 'should'...also at people who i think should know better.
People who are supposed to be led by the holy spirit; i think they 'should' not be so hoodwinked in certain situations that they are.
I don't exclude myself either; if i receive Jesus in the holy Eucharist;;; Why am i still so deaf?
I suppose its just letting doubts take over.

Knowing who God is and trusting his promises; that's where i have to work on.
I think its important to reassure and encourage so much more when it comes to the topic of suffering.
I love this from the bible too:
2 Corinthians 4:17
Therefore we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, yet our inner self is being renewed day by day. For our light and temporary affliction is producing for us an eternal glory that far outweighs our troubles. So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.…

The good outweighs the bad.

[irish m]

Mirjana herself looks to be suffering in her 2nd of September Apparition on one of the utube clips
God Bless her
God Bless you all love Irish M

[MitchforMary]

Well down here in South East Texas where Harvey washed us away, I saw much suffering. Funny thing is I saw much coming together and helping our fellow man.

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Amen MitchforMary...

We are praying for you everyday and have not forgot about Houston! God Bless...

[Medjugorjeprayers]

Amen MitchforMary...

We are praying for you everyday and have not forgot about Houston, Florida, those affected by the wildfires in the west and the earthquake victims in Mexico! God Bless...

Concerning little one's suffering, no matter how unfair it seems, and as much as we hate to see it, it is a reality in our world. There is something we can do about it and that is Prayer.

Maryh, Prodigals, Irishm and all others here on this forum, here's an opportunity to pray for this Precious child of God named Lelia who is scheduled for brain surgery this Wednesday morning at 6:00a.m. US eastern time. Please pray that the white spot on her brain is not a relapse of the cancer.... Thank you so much!




https://www.medjugorjejourney.com/

[ActionReq]

So many words from Jesus, at first
were not making sense to the people
who were present at the time listening
to him.

Examples:
I am the door.
I am the vine, you are the branches.
I am the light.
You are the salt of the earth.

Without context, faith, goodwill these
are soundbites and cliches.

One day she may say:
You, my apostles of love, are the
little lambs, and I am the ewe. You
come to my udders for the true milk.
My milk is my love. There are also
mosquitos and ticks who feed on me.
But they are thieves and robbers.
In them there is no true love, but
in you my apostles, there is love.
You feed on milk, I feed on shamrock,
sown by my son, like the bees feed
on shamrock blossom and make
their honey. You my apostles, feed on
my milk and feed on their honey.


This sounds ridiculous, depending
on whom it comes from.

A good question to consider:
Is there any relief without suffering?